In Season 2, Episode 3 of "Unlocking the Buyer's Mind," we delve deep into the art of crafting compelling copy with our guest expert, Jessica Johns-Pool. With a rich history of supporting Fortune 500 giants and small businesses, Jessica brings a unique blend of experience.
As a deadline-driven content master, Jessica has honed her skills in everything from optimizing SEO-rich content to crafting brand messages that resonate. This episode promises to give insights to budding entrepreneurs and seasoned corporate marketers.
Whether you're looking to enhance your brand's voice, drive conversions, or understand the nuances of B2B communications, Jessica's expertise is bound to inspire.
But that's not all!
Secure your spot at the free, on-demand 2023 holiday season marketing strategy webinar. Access tools, tips, and techniques that will elevate your marketing game, making it effective and effortless. Don't miss this opportunity to gear up for the festive season.
Tune in biweekly as I explore and discuss topics that can help you attract and nurture leads for your business and convert prospects into brand advocates.
And for more resources, tips, and insights, follow me on Instagram at @idealclientweb and check out the link in my bio for free downloads to support your marketing journey.
Be sure to visit my blog for newly published posts. And download this complimentary strategic marketing planner and guide (with lots of super helpful examples.)
Thanks for listening!
Peace, Love, and Profit,
Welcome back to season two of Unlocking the Buyer's Mind. I'm your host, Marcia Hilton. If this is your first time tuning in, a big warm welcome to you. And if you've been on this journey with me since season one, I'm so glad to have you back. Now, for our third episode of season two, I have a very special treat. Picture this, you've built a great product, but you're struggling to convey its worth. This... is where the magic of story writing or copywriting and storytelling comes in. And to unravel that magic, we have Jessica John's pool with us today. Jessica is not just a professional copywriter. She's been on both sides of the fence and entrepreneur turned corporate wonder. Welcome to the show, Jessica. Thanks Marcia, it's great to be here. All right, you mind if we dive right in? Let's dive right in. Okay, so Jessica, for those business owners and corporate marketing or marketing marketers tuning in, when they come to an expert like you, what should they have clarity on before penning down their story? Well, that is such an important question. I'm glad you asked. I think the most important thing to have clarity on is what the buyer wants. What is going to be important to the buyer? Because I think a lot of times as business owners, we think in terms of, I've got this inventory I need to move, or I've got this service that I want to sell. And that thinking leads you to think, OK, well, these are the the benefits, here's the cost, you're thinking about the product or the service. But to tell a story about your product, you need to think about what is it that the buyer wants? What do they need? What's the value of this to them? And that, it sounds like a small shift in your thinking, but it's really an important shift that will bring clarity to how you talk about your business and the products and services that you have. And that is exceptional advice, I think, because on my end, I'm always trying to provide information about... You hear a lot about the sales funnel. And so I try to shift to the buyer journey. It's the same funnel, so to speak, but it's a shift in perspective. So you consider all the thoughts and concerns and worries and questions and things that the buyer has. I think that's where you were going with it, right? That's where you went with it. Exactly. Because in terms of the buyer's journey, if they're not ready to buy, then you're talking to them to influence them and educate them about your products and services. Whereas if they're ready to buy, that's a whole different communication. So it is exactly the sales funnel that you're talking about. Okay. And a lot of the small business owners, I know they've heard that term, so just wanted to bring it home for them. We often hear that every brand has a story, but what does it mean to tell a story effectively? And how can that story influence a buyer's purchase decision? Okay, this is where. Let me see. I'm going from the script, so I'm assuming you can edit this part. Okay, so clarity, every brand has a story. I'm sorry, repeat. was that question not in there? I don't, well, go ahead and say it again, because I. often hear that every brand has a story, but what does it mean to tell that story effectively? And how can that story influence purchase decisions? Okay, you did give me the question. It's not one that I prepared an answer. So let me think and see if you like this. Okay. Okay, I think the most important thing to tell your story effectively is to be authentic. I think that is where a lot of brands get in trouble with their audience is by either, you know, an example with software is if this is a beta, tell people it's a beta. Tell them that they're going to be, they're going to be some kinks to work through and you will, you will. take their feedback and incorporate it into a better product. Be honest with your customers about what it is they're getting. And I think a lot of times business owners think, oh, well, we can paper over the cracks. It's like, no, no. Sometimes you can, but when you can't, it's really going to hurt you. So don't hurt your brand by being inauthentic. If it's a value. brand that you've got, don't try and sell it as a luxury brand and vice versa. I think you've really got to say what it is you really are and be honest about that with the customer. Okay. And not only be honest, I guess, but make sure that they don't miss that honesty because, you know. because people value that. People value authenticity so much these days. And just think of all the brands that get in trouble with, you can call it the cancel culture, but it's basically brands that are not being authentic or they get off message with their branding. And it's. directly impacts people and how much they believe in the company and in the brand and in the product or the service. So that would be my key advice. I love that. Or they didn't hire an outstanding copywriter like yourself. So their copy in their advertising or their promotion just didn't convey clearly that they're being authentic or didn't come across as authentic, even though that was their intention. I see a lot of brands doing that now though, as part of their practice. The authenticity, we're beta. Like, everyone's doing that. It's a good way to, but they push things to market faster because of that now. And then they use the feedback to, I mean, it's not the worst thing. I mean, it's a perfectly legitimate thing to do if you tell people that's what you're doing. I know I've bought a service recently. It was an annual subscription and it is, it's app based and there's absolutely, they respond to no customer service contact, none. Through their app, through social media, direct messaging, pick up the phone and call, nothing. And I have been completely shocked. It is, but obviously it's a beta product and they're not really, they're not really there yet with some stuff. There's a brand that's well known. I won't mention any names here. And they are definitely not beta. And they're just, and I use them a lot, but they are really hard to get a hold of. Like people, you see people searching the web, they're looking for a way to call, contact. And I think more recently, maybe the last, this past year, they've done a better job of finding a way to communicate, but it's not phone calls or anything, but they found a way to help their audience reach them. But for a long time, you'd see things on the web because you're searching and everyone else is searching too and they're commenting about it. There's no contact. And then there's an organization, a tool, a platform that I use and they have a group on Facebook. And even though they have beta products and they announce it, people are often complaining about the beta products in the group instead of using support, which because they hate the support. But so what that brought to mind for me is that company needs a better job reminding people in, well, ways that are well written or well spoken, that is still beta. Because I think people forget that a lot after a while and just start complaining about, I'm spending money doing this. You know, they're not remembering we're still in that phase. And you froze there. So I don't know. There you go. You're back. But you heard me, that they need to remind people that they're in that phase, right? Yeah. Okay. And it's hard. It's hard to communicate with the public. So businesses have my full respect. But you gotta do it. Yeah, expectations keep going higher and higher with today's public. All right, Jessica, let's have a bit of fun here. Describe a brand as if it were a character in a novel. Like what elements would you consider doing that when you're doing that? I guess the first thing that I would think about if I was thinking about a character in a novel, this made me think of brand personas and when I used to develop and write brand personas for companies. And I think the first thing I would think of is motivation. You know, what's their motivation? Are they the good guy or the bad guy in the story? Are they the heroine or the hero or are they the problem solver? And so I would think about their motivation. I would think about their place in life. Are they the rich mogul, the lonely single mom, the struggling college student? That's when I was thinking about this question, that was kind of where my brain was, thinking about motivation, place in life, and the role they're play. Are they the buyer, the seller, the influencer? That was... how I would think about a brand as a novel. I love it. I love all of it. And it makes me think I got to have her back to talk about personas. Because that's an entirely different like we could really go deep in that conversation. I love how you were naming actual people like a single mom was struggling, like things like that, because I think a lot of times my audience, they have they struggle with that whole idea that you ask someone small business owner. Do you have clarity on your ideal person, ideal client? And almost everyone will say yes. Or who is your ideal client? They'll say everyone, but they think they have clarity. Right. It's not, and it's hard for people to get that. And I know I had a hard time getting it when I first came across that. But I feel like you would be really qualified to speak really clearly about what that looks like and give great examples in language. And if I were speaking to this audience, this is how I would say that. And if I was speaking to that audience, then here's why that's important. So. Think about the possibility of revisiting with us, please. Okay. All right. We're in a world that's filled with content everywhere, Jessica, you can't miss content, right? Everybody's a content creator. It's a creator. So in a scenario like this, how can a small business owner make sure their copy stands out and truly resonates with their ideal audience? I come back to authenticity first. That is just so key. It's what everybody wants right now and it really resonates with people. But it is so incredibly difficult for anybody to stand out because like you said, there is just so much content out there. I forget what the statistics are about how many brand images you're faced with before you even get out the door and commute to your office. But... It's staggering and people can only absorb so much. So I think in terms of making your content stand out, consistency is super important. You're an excellent example of that and how you consistently market the ideal client and have your schedule and that's what people have to do. And it's tough, it is a lot of work, it's a lot of work. And I tell my audience sometimes because, you know, I deal with an autoimmune condition which took forever to be diagnosed. And so I can't tell when I'm gonna have a good day or a bad day. So I definitely use scheduling tools for a lot of things, but it's consistency is tougher, you know, especially when you have chronic condition like that. It's like tough, but it's necessary to remain consistent. And if you're an entrepreneur, it can be really overwhelming to think about. So you have to have a plan to eat that elephant, you know, and it's one bite at a time and it's got to be consistent. So basically, being consistent, being authentic, and being consistent, especially for a lot of solopreneurs, is going to mean using the tools at your disposal, because they're also scheduling tools, even if it's just Facebook's own or Instagram's organic their tools, having a plan and a strategy. A lot of small business owners are just doing tactics. They're throwing things at the wall, see what sticks. I was going to say having a plan is so important and I know when I was freelancing for businesses, a lot of times it was a big task to get the buy-in for a communications plan before tactics began. If you don't have a plan, you're going to end up spinning your wheels a lot and it's going to be harder to track success. figure out whether you're really getting a good ROI. Having a plan and then working your plan is really key. I'm glad you mentioned the plans because it can be hard for, especially somebody who's blowing and going and they don't have enough hours in the day to get everything done for their business to stop and think about, do the brainwork that's required to have a communications plan. it's really not an option if you want to be effective. Did you say blowing and going? I've never heard that phrase before. I love it. But coming up on the holiday season, I've been promoting that a lot, like having a strategic plan, going to the holiday season, um, not just creating content or being reactive, but actually having a strategy and, um, looking at your data, so much data available to you and not being scared by that word, just go glance at it and make decisions based on it instead of just what feels like a best guess. But having that plan and then being authentic and then, you know, just being consistent. And if you have a plan and follow it, that's easier to be consistent. Right. Exactly. Then you've got some of it becomes autopilot. It's not autopilot to plan it, but it can be to execute it. Yes, thank you very much. Okay. One aspect I emphasize, Jessica, is setting goals and being intentional, which is before doing anything in marketing. So when approaching copywriting with clear goals, what should those goals typically look like? And I think we kind of hit on some of that a moment ago, but is there anything you'd like additional you'd like to add to that? in terms of approaching with clear goals when I was reading that question ahead of time, what I was thinking about was you mentioned earlier when you ask people what their ideal client is and they say everyone. One of my biggest challenges would be when somebody would bring me in and want a website or a brochure or an update to their website or series of press releases or whatever, my question would always be, okay, what's the goal of this piece? And is it to increase sales? Is it to bring in new customers? Is it to just raise awareness? And the answer oftentimes would be, oh, we wanna do all of that. It's like, no, that's not the right answer. This is, that was not part of the multiple choice. Yeah, that was not one of the options. You failed. Yeah, that's a good point. And this goes back to strategy, right? Not just posting, because you saw someone else post it, you post it. Or you like it, it's cute, I'm posting it. But then a year goes by and you're not seeing the results you want in your business, because there was no plan and no intention, right? So. And, you know, if you, if you're working your plan and the cute thing that really intrigued you, that you thought, you know, it's okay to have those one-offs. Absolutely. Because that's part of being authentic with your brand. But, but yeah, you've got to have a clear intent for what these things you're doing are supposed to accomplish. Because otherwise you might end up with all advocating for your brand or building awareness but not driving any sales or you might drive sales without building the top of the funnel first. So it's, you got to think about all of it. You're trying to drive sales without anybody at the top of the phone. No one came in the funnel, but you're trying to sell to no one. So I can imagine some of my listeners, especially those in DIY marketing, they're thinking, how do I maintain my brand voice while still being adaptable to the changing market? Because we know that our market, the market, it used to be that technology was a thing that changed constantly. Like when I first went to school, that was tech, So I'd meet friends who were physicians and they used to say that medicine changed often. And then technology came and that changed even more rapidly. But the market is leading everything now, right? Our audience. So what's your advice for maintaining their brand voice while still being adaptable to ever changing market? You know, I think that's such an interesting question because some of the people that I've worked with are take adapting to the market completely in stride, don't think about it, just do it and it's so easy for them. And then there are other people who had a tactic or a technique that worked for them when they were first successful with their business and they want to just keep doing it because it's what they know. and they fail to see that the ROI is completely changed or it's not resonating with your audience because your audience has moved from point A to point B. And if you don't move with them, they're not gonna come back looking for you. So I think to me, a key part of being adaptable is just accepting that you're going to have to adapt. I think. for some people more than others, change is hard. Yeah. But in terms of keeping your, I think if you're open to it, then you naturally can progress your brand and your brand voice and your brand promise as the market moves along. Because if you're paying attention to those, the characters in the novel that are part of your brand, then you'll realize when the heroine has moved on from being a Tinkerbell to being you know, I don't know, one of the other Disney characters. One or... Maybe that's a weird analogy, but yeah, it's, you know, the who you're talking to changes over time. And if it, if who you're talking to doesn't change what their needs are, probably changes. I think of it as, you know, if you're selling a diaper service, okay maybe you only are going to ever have a diaper service company but that means you've got a customer that only needs your services for a finite period of time and you know once they move out of the diaper stage are you going to have other services for them or are you going to concentrate on the diapers and it's I think it's the same sort of thing you know all kinds of business services change over time and need to as Needs grow and change. Okay, now of all the questions I sent you, this one, I was like, hmm, I hope this one's not too tough. I was like, how is she gonna answer this one? Okay, the power of words is undeniable. So can you share an instance where changing just a word or a phrase can drastically impact the consumer's emotion or impact the actions they take? I actually have a terrific story about this. One of my former employers was building a plant or wanted to build a plant in a small town. And it was a little controversial in the town because of the environmental impact that there was a potential for. And the... The company, it was a Fortune 50 company, they'd spent a whole lot of time and money talking to the town and trying to influence the town, doing lobbying to convince them that they would be good neighbors. And my role in this was to write a series of press releases and the final press release was supposed to be launched at noon ahead of a 7 p.m. town council meeting when. they were going to find out whether they got permission to develop this plant. And so the press release, because it was ahead of the vote, was written to say company X announces, um, it, it was announces plans to develop blah, blah with per, you know, uh, per city permit, you know, uh, or it was something like comma. per city approval. Okay, to indicate that it hasn't. Yeah, okay, makes sense. The person that was in charge of the website didn't like how long the headline was and changed it to say, Company X announces new power plant under development like it was a done deal. Didn't change the rest of the press release. But by the time the corporate leaders and their lobbyists got to the town council meeting, they practically had pitchforks and, you know, tarn feathering equipment ready for them. It, needless to say, it did not go through. They were called on the carpet for being presumptuous and assuming that they could just roll over this little town and they didn't get to build this multi-million dollar project that was like key in a whole strategy that was built around how they were gonna make money in that part of the country. So yeah, words matter. That's huge. That's not even a small, small example. That's a huge, that's a costly example. And we know, we all know that we live in a time and a culture where people read the headlines and sometimes that's it. They won't give anything else a chance. They only, I am often on Instagram and I'll see someone, is it MSNBC? Like one of those, you know, and they, and they post an article and they say, you know, um, this person says there are three ways that you can accomplish this. Um, and they'll say, you know, whatever it is, they pull people in with a headline and no one wants to go just tap twice to read the article. They'll get offended in the comments that they did that and was asking them to get into the article as if they could read, put the whole article there. But there's always that one person who goes in and reads it and it comes back to the comments and adds the list of whatever the three or four things are. And then people follow up with, thank you. You're a, you're a lifesaver. Thank you. You're our hero. That is the, this is the culture we're in right now. Yes, and sorry. It's okay. The thing that, I mean, in terms of words matter, think about how many times somebody hasn't read a contract closely enough and there's a phrase in there that causes them to be liable for something they weren't intending or restricts them from doing something that they thought they were going to be able to do. It's words matter. They really do. in all kinds of ways. Well, thank you very much. All right, Jessica, we've been talking about the art and science of copywriting today, but now let's switch things up a bit. You ready for a little fun? Okay, perfect. We're about to jump into our rapid fire segment. Here's how it works. I'll shoot 10 questions your way and you have 60 seconds to answer them. And I'll tell you a little secret. I've never limited anyone's time. Thank you. I also, so my audience members know, I send people my guests like a hundred questions and they can choose 10 of them. Jessica chose 13 and I did not eliminate any of the 13. She sent me so, because I became extremely curious about her answers to these 13 questions. And she's given me the approval to go ahead and ask her the 13, isn't that right? Jessica, yeah, yeah. Okay, so it's a chance for me and my listeners to get to know a different side of you. So even though we, been associated for a long time, we know each other's like, I'm still always surprised by people's answers to the question. So, all right, I'm gonna start asking the first question and then start my timer, but in truth, I don't have a timer today. So, 60 seconds scramble here. First question, what's the first thing you do when you wake up? my teeth. Okay, that's a lot of people do that, don't they? Okay, what's the last book you read? Where the crawdads sing. Was that made into a show or movie? I feel like I saw that. was made into a movie. I was like, I know that. All right. Oh wait, I forgot. I just reread Forgotten People, Forgotten Diseases by Peter Hotez. I've never heard of that one, okay? It's like you're a medical writer. It's interesting. makes sense. Okay, what's your favorite workout? Walking. Ah, okay, okay. I love a good walk, good hike. You know, before the call, I kind of thought that's going to be her answer to that one, because I do know that you will. Okay, what's the best piece of advice you've ever received? When I was much younger, I was very anxious and worried a lot about stuff. Just worry, worry. And a friend got aggravated with me one day and said, Jessica, think about the last three months. What happened that you couldn't handle? And it was an older gentleman. And it stopped me dead in my tracks. And ever since then, when I get... overwhelmed I just like okay last three months what happened that you couldn't handle? Nothing. It's always the same answer. it's such a great realization, you know, like no one told, I don't know if anyone tried to tell me and I didn't hear it, but I came to that took a while on my own after not too long ago. And I was speaking to one of my nieces recently and she tends to worry a little bit much. And so I was like trying to convey that because I had come, had to come to that on my own, I think. And I was like, one day I just realized when you sit and have all this stuff going through your mind, the stories playing in your head, Maybe I read that somewhere that your brain sometimes interprets that like it's real. And so we're feeding ourselves all this stress. Ten times as much as what actually happens. Right. So I thought when you reflect back, you're like, how many of those things actually worked out that way? The way you were worried about it happening. Not a whole lot of them. Right. And so that, I'm thankful to your friend for, you know, passing that to you early. It took a while for me to grasp that. Yeah, me too. Yeah, it's good. It's good advice. Good life advice. OK, what's your favorite guilty pleasure or TV show? Guilty pleasure TV shows really the question. I am, I'm a sucker for, you know, the Hallmark movie, Romcom kind of things. And I'm also a sucker for British crime dramas. Yeah. I love a good, especially if it's set in anywhere in the UK. I'm a sucker. Uh oh, I thought you were gonna say British humor. I was like, really? American human British humor is so different, but yeah, crime drama. I like, I like, I can get that. I can see that. All right, if you could have dinner with anyone, dead or alive, hopefully when they were alive though, who would it be? Um, I would like to meet my great grandparents, all of them, and have dinner with all of them at the same time when they were like maybe when they were 25 to 35. Oh wow. Yeah, and just because, you know, I know something about their lives toward the end, but I don't know anything about their lives when they were young, you know, that that's information's lost to time. So I'd like to, I think it would be really cool. I think I'll tell you how I would answer that one offline. That one. I mean, people living, I mean, there's just so many people that it would be so cool to meet, you know, that one I think is, it's so hard to narrow it down. Michelle Obama would probably be pretty high on the list. She's incredible. Yeah. I'd be like, leave your phone on so I can hear the conversation. I'm just kidding. Call me and leave the phone on so I can hear it like, oh, that's Michelle. Oh my gosh. No. OK, I'll tell you mine because I just didn't know how weird it would be, but I've done some of the ancestry stuff. I don't know if you have, but. A lot of people who are in the West who are of African ancestry, we have some European ancestry. And of course, that information is far easier to find because there's a lot of documentation than any slave ancestry. So having read about, for the first time ever, I'm speaking recording and I can't remember his name, but someone Hilton, right? He was a friend of Thomas Jefferson's because Thomas Jefferson apparently wrote a lot of letters. And so a lot of letters are in the archives. It's on the internet. You just search and you find it. William Hilton, I think it was. William Hilton. But he was a European man who owned, there's a lot of Hilton spelled H-Y-L in, on Jamaica, the island I'm from. And so, and the same people, the H-I, the H-E, they're the same people, right? So back then he owned a lot of property there. So there's a lot of people with that spelling. And so, but there's also some interconnect, you know, someone in the family had a relationship with someone. Okay. So I've thought, what would it... been like to go back and be a fly on the wall, maybe not sit down to dinner, because I wouldn't have had the opportunity to sit down to dinner with him. But you know, a fly on the wall and hear the conversations and interactions there. I wouldn't want to go back in that time, you know. So that, yeah, but that's okay. When you were giving your story, that's what came to mind for me because I've thought about actually also, you know, not a dinner, but just. curious about sitting down or hearing what's going on. I like that. I think I'd love to sit down with you and Michelle Obama too. Maybe she'll hear this podcast episode and invite us. Mrs. Obama. Sweet or savory snacks? SABRE! Ah, okay. We won't be fighting over cookies then. What's the last hobby you picked up? uh flower arranging that was my that flower arranging that was my pandemic hobby Okay, okay, okay. What's a movie quote you use regularly? Have fun storming the castle. Where's that from? from Princess Bride. That's what the Billy Crystal character who's a wizard says when he's waving off the heroes of the story to go attack the castle. Have fun going to the castle, boys. I can imagine that now, okay, okay. that's what my husband and I say to each other when we're leaving for work. Ah, there's a Joan of Arc. I've read that Joan of Arc wasn't real. I don't know, but that's what comes, I don't know about, I need to look it up. But she has a quote that I always from the movie, I don't know about being real, but that always comes to mind for me. And for some reason today is not that day. All right, so what's the best vacation you've ever had? We've had some really good vacations, but I think my But I've got two favorites of all times. One was a trip to Taiwan with a good friend who left there when he was five. That was a great vacation. We had some city time, we had some country time, we did city things, we did historic things. And I like that kind of mix. The other thing, I love Grand Turk. You and I have talked about the Turks and Caicos, but. yeah. There's a place we like to stay in Grand Turk and I just want to go there and live there and spend my retirement before I'm actually old enough to retire by just staying in that hotel. Right on the beach. yeah, it's cool. It's I don't have words for it. It's gorgeous there. it's so restful and it's so beautiful. And the vibe, the culture is just sort of like, just good for you, good for you. OK, now I'm in that space. Now I'm imagining all of that. I'm lost in that. Because you know I love travel, so it's like that takes me there. What's the most recent? We just finished question, oh, that was question 10. So now we're going to go on to the bonus, the three bonus questions, OK? OK, what's a popular song you secretly enjoy? It won't be a secret anymore. yeah. Uh, it's not, it's not current, but, uh, call me maybe is one of those silly pop songs that I just love. And I know that, but I don't know who sings it, but I recognize the song. I think it's Carly Rae Jepsen, Carly Mae Jepsen, something like that. okay. And that was a secret folks, it's no longer a secret. What's the most recent gift you gave someone? I sent flowers. That's sweet. All right, what's a marketing campaign that, this is a really bad one for a last question. What's a marketing campaign that disappointed you? Oh, I don't remember. I don't remember that one. I'm like, I did I pick that? I don't know, you don't have to answer it. Maybe I put the wrong one in there. I was like... Well, yeah, I'm trying to think of one that disappointed me. I don't know. I can't think of anything. okay. We don't need the answer to that one. Okay. That was intense. Thanks for playing along, Jessica. I appreciate it. All right. It's almost time for wrapping up, Jessica. If you could give just one piece of advice to my listeners, especially those navigating the intricate maze of copywriting and storytelling, one piece of advice, what would it be? It's something that I do for myself and it's something that I recommend to pretty much anybody that's a new writer or somebody that's trying to dip their hand in, you know, or not dip their hand, try their, you know, try their hand at copywriting is to pay attention to the brands that resonate with you. It doesn't have to be, you know, in your same line of work or your same product, but... If it's a brand that captures your interest on Instagram and gets you to click on the shop now button, even if you don't buy, go back and pay attention to what resonated. Was it the pictures? Was it the headline? Was it the combination? When you clicked over, what was your experience? You know, and really analyze what works for you. And then apply that to your business. One of the best pieces of... pieces of advice that I got professionally early on was read good writing. So if you have, if you like Adam Grant or Brene Brown or Neil Patel or whoever it is that's out there that you really like, read them regularly. Listen to their podcast and not just listen to one-off things, but especially if it's a podcast like yours, pay attention to... the way they market it, what their follow up is after the event. The Economist is one of the publications that I think does a really great job of posting their stories, you know, all the time, but they do a really great job of going back. And, and, you know, you think that a story is current because you're seeing it for the first time, but they're promoting something they wrote three months earlier that So pay attention to those things. Pay attention to the words, the techniques, the pictures, how the pictures or the video works with the words. Because chances are, if it works for you, it's going to work for somebody else, too. Especially those big brands have tons of money. They are spending a lot of money to hire the best and the brightest. So by all means, copy from the best. Yeah, yeah. And she doesn't mean plagiarize. She means mimic, mimic. Yeah, brand mentors, brand mentor, mentorship. I love it. That is invaluable advice. So don't ignore it. Go back, replay that and write it down because seriously. All right, before we wrap up today, I want to touch upon something vital. Storytelling isn't just about selling a product. It's about expressing its soul. So when we connect the right words with emotions, we're not just influencing a purchase. We're inviting our audience into a narrative, a journey that stays with them. And your brand story isn't just a bunch of words strung together. It's an experience waiting to unfold. So whether you are writing an email or designing a campaign or narrating your brand's journey, remember that from the heart, Or remember that the heart of your message will always be its most powerful tool. As Jessica said, be authentic. And as we close today's enlightening session with Jessica John's pool, here's a gentle reminder for all of my dedicated listeners, unlocking the buyer's mind is a bi-weekly podcast in two weeks. We'll return with another insightful episode to help you navigate the marketing world and don't forget to check the show notes for. The link about an upcoming webinar, or actually the webinar is available right now for the holiday season. And we were talking about strategy and tactics. Well, there's a lot of strategy in there and guidance and training video. And in terms of tactics, there are hundreds of templated customizable posts for social media, email, blog posts, all of that to make your holiday season marketing far, far easier than ever. So go check out the link in the show notes and click on that. Sign up for the webinar, it is a free webinar, and learn more. And Jessica Johns-Poole, I wanna thank you so much for being here and for enlightening us with your knowledge and sharing those invaluable tips with my audience. Thank you so much. Well thank you for having me. It's been a lot of fun. And I'm always learning from you too, so I... It's mutual. Well, thank you. And thank you for tuning in today. And until next time, remember the right words backed by strategy can unlock any door. Thank you.